From reaches beyond space and time come these incredible horrors, bent on... bent on... well we really don’t know, do we?
EverytimeEvery time we learn a little bit, we go nuts. Perhapsitsit’s the madness they cause that gives them power after all...
- - The Obligatory Cthulhu Set rulebook (updated in The Bigger Geekier Box rulebook)
The Elder Things are one of the 4 factions from The Obligatory Cthulhu Set.
Terrorize your opponents into Madness with nightmarish monsters and abilities from the nether reaches of existence.
Other factions from the same set: Innsmouth, Minions of Cthulhu, Miskatonic University.
Cards[]
The Elder Things have the usual 10 minions and 10 actions. The total minion base power (not counting any abilities) is unusually high at 39 or an average of 3.9 per minion compared to the usual 30 and 3. However, there are some restrictions on playing the highest powered minions (Elder Thing and Shoggoth).
Among their actions, there are:
- 1 play-on-minion action: Dunwich Horror,
- 0 play-on-base actions,
- 9 standard actions (2 that affect one or more minions, in bold): Begin the Summoning (2x), Insanity, Power of Madness (2x), Spreading Horror, The Price of Power, Touch of Madness, Unfathomable Goals,
- 2 actions that directly increase a minion's power: Dunwich Horror, The Price of Power.
Minions[]
1x Elder Thing - power 10 - Destroy two of your other minions or place this minion on the bottom of your deck. Ongoing: This minion is not affected by opponents’ cards. (errata'd by The Bigger Geekier Box) FAQ
2x Shoggoth - power 6 - You can only play this minion on a base where you have at least 6 power. Each other player may draw a Madness card. Destroy a minion here belonging to each player who does not do so. FAQ
3x Mi-go - power 3 - Each other player may draw a Madness card. For each other player that does not, you may draw a card. FAQ
4x Byakhee - power 2 - Each other player with a minion at this base draws a Madness card. FAQ
Actions[]
2x Begin the Summoning - Place a minion from your discard pile on top of your deck. You may play an extra action this turn. FAQ
1x Dunwich Horror - Play on a minion. Ongoing: This minion gains 5 power. Destroy this minion at the end of the turn. (errata'd by The Bigger Geekier Box) FAQ
1x Insanity - Each other player draws two Madness cards. FAQ
2x Power of Madness - All other players reveal their hands, discard all Madness cards and then shuffles their discard pile into their deck. FAQ
1x Spreading Horror - Each other player discards cards at random until that player discards a non-Madness card. FAQ
1x The Price of Power - Special: Before a base scores, all other players with minions there reveal their hand. One of your minions there has +2 power for each Madness card revealed. FAQ
1x Touch of Madness - Each other player draws a Madness card. Draw a card and play an extra action this turn. FAQ
1x Unfathomable Goals - All other players reveal his or her hands. Each player who reveals a Madness card must destroy one of their minions. FAQ
Bases[]
Clarifications[]
Here are the official clarifications as they appear in The Bigger Geekier Box rulebook:
Elder Thing: After playing this, if you do not actually destroy two of your other minions in play, you immediately place it on the bottom of your deck. You cannot choose to do both.
The Price of Power: The power boost lasts until the end of the turn.
Shoggoth: You only destroy minions of other players. Your own minions are safe.
Mechanics[]
Of the factions of The Obligatory Cthulhu Set, Elder Things force everyone else to draw Madness cards, without ever forcing you to draw any, and punish them with those Madness cards. You hold this threat over their heads, as well as a rare few insanely powerful minions should the stars align for you.
Strategy[]
Part of this faction's utility lies in how well your opponents know the Elder Things. You can pull devastating combos out of nowhere against ignorant or naive opponents. You force everyone to react to your cards, whether they knew of the threat beforehand or not. Savvy opponents can thwart you from playing your most powerful minions, or from utilizing their Madness cards by playing them themselves. Play mind games to control them and keep them unsure of your next move.
Sometimes your opponents get to choose between drawing a Madness card and facing a different penalty. All these conflicting choices you push onto your opponents tends to sow massive chaos. It is in your interest to keep track of who has Madness cards and how many, so you will know how much you can profit from them. When you do, to make sure your opponents aren't lying, several of the Elder Things' actions force them to reveal their hands, giving you the side benefit of learning what they have available.
Playing the Powerful Minions[]
The Elder Things' most powerful minions demand conditions from you in order to play them. Your opponents may try to prevent you from fulfilling these conditions, especially if you telegraph their threat with Begin the Summoning, since discard piles are visible to all players.
The "boss" minion Elder Thing still holds the record for the highest printed power ever published at 10. The card's wording is a little unclear, but clarifications say if you don't actually destroy two of your minions, including if you have no minions in play to destroy, you immediately place it on the bottom of your deck. It's not that free of a win. The minions can be from different bases.
Shoggoth's play requirement of at least 6 power on the base will most often be fulfilled with 2 minions (those minions are not destroyed). If your minions are too weak, you will need 3. Power boosts, such as Dunwich Horror, can drive this requirement down to 1 minion. Shoggoth will usually break and win you the base, but if your opponents decide to destroy their minions to delay you, you'll dominate it instead.
Bases[]
Elder Thing's bases are themed after the stories from whence the monsters come, but their abilities share no similarities or benefits with the faction's minions and actions.
Synergy[]
Being a fairly complex faction, a skilled player can pull off pairing with another complex one, but if not, something simpler may be a wise choice. Ones that help you fulfill your best minions' conditions fit well, or you might be one of those people that enjoys seeing your friends suffer...
- Miskatonic University: Playing against them is actually quite bad for you, as they have many ways to benefit and recover from Madness, so it's not a bad move to choose them simply to deny this.
- Shapeshifters: On a similar vein, Copycats and Mimics take advantage of your cards without suffering their penalties. Manipulate your own power boosts and Mimics to play Shoggoths and Elder Thing to profit from their high printed power.
- Tricksters: What better way to ruin everyone's night than by sacrificing two Gremlins?
- Minions of Cthulhu: If Madness is your thing (not judging here, but your opponents might), you might as well go all the way with it. The Minions allow you to chain together and recycle your punishing actions, and Star-Spawn spreads all the more chaos.
- Zombies: One of those simpler factions to rest your mind. They supply easy fodder to bring out the Elder Thing again and again.
- Dinosaurs: Another simple faction, their high power helps you bring out Shoggoths. If you're lucky enough to have Rampage and Elder Thing available, you can one-shot most bases all by yourself, but Dinosaurs don't help you much in summoning the monster.
External Strategy Guides[]
- |Smash Up Tools| Can you destroy the Elder Thing?
- |Smash Up Discussion| Is Madness Broken? |Madness Analysis|
- Smash Up KOTH #32: Elder Thing
- Smash Up Action Awareness #39: Insanity
FAQ[]
Questions on Elder Thing[]
Q: It lacks "Ongoing", so does it mean it's only immune on the turn it's played?
A: The Bigger Geekier Box rulebook errata'd it: it now says "Ongoing".
Q: I don't get its first ability. Why would I place it on the bottom of my deck?
A: The intention is that when you play Elder Thing, you must destroy two of your other minions. If you fail to do that, either because you chose minions that are immune to destruction, or because you don't have enough minions to destroy, then you must place Elder Thing on the bottom of your deck. In some rare cases, you may actually not have a choice to place it on the bottom of your deck.
Q: Why would I play it if I can't destroy two other minions?
A: Some rare abilities may force you to play it despite not having minions to destroy. (e.g. Secret Volcano Headquarters)
Rule: N/A
Q: If I only have one minion to destroy, do I still destroy it?
A: No, if you cannot satisfy the destruction requirement, you don't destroy any minions.[1]
Q: If I only have two minions, one that's indestructible and one that's not, I will have to place Elder Thing on the bottom of my deck no matter what, but do I or can I still destroy that one destructible minion?
A: No, if you cannot satisfy the destruction requirement, you don't destroy any minions.[1]
Q: It tells me to destroy "two of my minions". Can I destroy minions I own that I don't control? I don't control them but I "own" them, so they are "my" minions, right?
A: No. "Your minions" are minions you control, whether or not you own them. A minion you own but don't control isn't yours.
Q: Must the minions to be destroyed be on the same base as Elder Thing? Must Elder Thing be played on a base where there is one of the minions chosen to be destroyed?
A: The minions to be destroyed can be on any bases, and Elder Thing can be played on any base.
Q: Can either minion or both be in stasis?
A: No, cards in stasis cannot be affected by cards that do not explicitly state they work on cards in stasis.
Q: An opponent has Elder Thing in play. Can I play Curse of Imprisonment or Potion of Cowardice to remove its immunity?
A: No, or rather if you try, your actions will be discarded without effect. Their Elder Thing cannot be affected by your cards, and playing an action on it counts as affecting it, so it won't work.
Rule: Definition of "affect". Playing an action on a minion counts as affecting the minion.
Rule: If conditions prohibit playing a chosen card, discard it instead.
Q: An opponent plays an Elder Thing. I interrupt them and play Control Minion. Am I able to take control of Elder Thing or is it immune?
A: Control Minion is played before its ability is resolved, so it's not immune yet.
Q: Can I play Elder Thing with Last Call or Rude Awakening without having to destroy minions?
A: Yes. You play it, then immediately cancel its ability until the end of the turn. At the end of the turn, its immunity is restored and you can ignore the destruction part because it's only resolved when Elder Thing is played.
Q: I play Bear Hug (or Unfathomable Goals, Griefer, Out of Sight) and an opponent chooses to destroy (or return) their Elder Thing, claiming that it can't be destroyed (nor returned) by my card and therefore survives. Is that correct?
A: Yes. Elder Thing is immune to any effect caused by other players' cards, as long as the effect is included in the definition of "affect", such as a destruction or a return.
Rule: Definition of "affect".
Q:I play a standard action in order to affect an opponent's minion on Elder Thing's base. An opponent uses their Dancing King to copy that effect and have Elder Thing be affected as well, but Elder Thing is protected, right?
A: No. Elder Thing is protected from being affected by other players' cards. Firstly, what Dancing King does is copy the effect onto Elder Thing, which itself doesn't count as affecting the minion. Secondly, Elder Thing is now considered as indirectly affected by your action, which Elder Thing isn't protected against.
Rule: Check Diva, Dancing King, We Are Family's clarification.
Questions on Shoggoth[]
Q: If I play Shoggoth, only the other players get a choice whether to draw a Madness card or not, not me. Yet, it tells me to "destroy a minion here belonging to each player who does not do so." It says "each player who does not do so", not "each other player who does not do so" (especially compared to Mi-go), so am I included among the players? Do I have to destroy one of my minions because I didn't draw a Madness card?
A: No, you only destroy the other player's minions.
Q: Can I play Shoggoth with Last Call or Rude Awakening on a base where I have less than 6 power?
A Yes, those cards actually cancel the play restriction.
Q: With Disguise, if I have minions on the same base for a total power of 6 or more, can I play Shoggoth there before returning one of them because of Disguise?
A: Yes, Disguise's extra minions must be played immediately before the chosen minions are returned, so you've managed to meet Shoggoth's requirement.
Rule: Multiple parts of a card’s ability must be done in their stated order.
Q: I have a Mimic on a base with power 3 (for example). Can I play Shoggoth on its base? It will be power 6 because of Shoggoth after all.
A: No. Mimic will only be power 6 after Shoggoth is in play. Before that, it's still power 3 and therefore Shoggoth can't be played there because you don't have enough total power, and in fact, if you still try to play it there, it will be discarded without effect.
Rule: If conditions prohibit playing a chosen card, discard it instead.
Questions on Mi-go[]
Q: The other players allow me to draw cards, but that would bring my hand to over ten cards. What happens then? Do I draw until I have ten? Do I discard any remaining cards once I have ten cards in hand? Or do I draw all required cards and immediately discard down to ten?
A: You draw all required cards and don't discard any until your upcoming Draw 2 Cards phase. At that point, you will indeed need to draw two cards and discard down to 10 if you have more than 10. That's the only moment where you must discard down to 10. At any other time, you keep your hand of cards.
Q: Another player already has ten cards in their hand. I play a Mi-go. What happens if they decide to draw a Madness card? I suppose they don't draw any because they already reached the limit of cards in hand, right? Or do they draw one and immediately discard it in their discard pile? Or do they draw it and choose which card to discard?
A: They draw the Madness card and don't discard any card until their next Draw 2 Cards phase (so not any Draw 2 Cards phase!). At that point, they will indeed need to draw two cards and discard down to 10 if they have more than 10. That's the only moment where they must discard down to 10. At any other time, they keep their hand of cards.
Questions on Byakhee[]
Q: Another player already has ten cards in their hand. I play a Byakhee to make them draw a Madness card. What happens? I suppose they don't draw any because they already reached the limit of cards in hand, right? Or do they draw one and immediately discard it in their discard pile? Or do they draw it and choose which card to discard?
A: They draw the Madness card and don't discard any card until their next Draw 2 Cards phase (so not any Draw 2 Cards phase!). At that point, they will indeed need to draw two cards and discard down to 10 if they have more than 10. That's the only moment where they must discard down to 10. At any other time, they keep their hand of cards.
Questions on Begin the Summoning[]
Q: It doesn't say to reveal the card you place on your deck, so I don't have to reveal it if I don't want to, right?
A: No. Discard piles are "public knowledge", so you can check which cards are in any player's discard pile at any time. If you take a card out of the discard pile, players are supposed to know what card was taken out. So, you should reveal it. Otherwise, how are you supposed to prove that you didn't put an action instead of a minion?
Rule: If you take a card out of the discard pile, show it to everyone.
Q: How does this interact with the Disco Dancers' mechanic and Funky Town's ability?
A: It doesn't interact with them at all, because it doesn't affect any minions in play and so its effect can't be copied.
Questions on Dunwich Horror[]
Q: The card is a bit unclear. Does the minion have +5 power forever (assuming it survives the destruction) or only the turn it is played?
A: The Bigger Geekier Box rulebook errata'd it: it now says "Ongoing".
Q: Is the minion destroyed before the base scores?
A: No. It is destroyed at the end of the turn (phase 5), which happens later than the Score Bases phase (phase 3).
Q: I know that if I play this on Brownie, I have to discard two random cards. But at the end of the turn, Brownie is destroyed (which counts as affecting it), do I discard two more random cards?
A: No. Brownie's ability only triggers immediately after you play a card that affects it. When Brownie is destroyed, the card is already in play.
Q: Can you play it on a minion in stasis?
A: No, cards in stasis cannot be affected by cards that do not explicitly state they work on cards in stasis.
Q: How does this interact with the Disco Dancers' mechanic and Funky Town's ability?
A: It doesn't interact with them at all, because it says "Play on a minion", which means that it is not a standard action.
Questions on Insanity[]
Q: Another player already has ten cards in their hand. I play Insanity to make them draw Madness cards. What happens? I suppose they don't draw any because they already reached the limit of cards in hand, right? Or do they draw them and immediately discard them in their discard pile? Or do they draw them and choose which two cards to discard?
A: They draw the Madness cards and don't discard any card until their next Draw 2 Cards phase (so not any Draw 2 Cards phase!). At that point, they will indeed need to draw two cards and discard down to 10 if they have more than 10. That's the only moment where they must discard down to 10. At any other time, they keep their hand of cards.
Q: How does this interact with the Disco Dancers' mechanic and Funky Town's ability?
A: It doesn't interact with them at all, because it doesn't affect any minions in play and so its effect can't be copied.
Questions on Power of Madness[]
Q: If a player reveals a card owned by another player, what happens?
A: Nothing, the card stays in their hand. That's because, while the other players can see who owns the card, the card is merely revealed and doesn't change location.
Rule: Cards you don’t own that are merely revealed in your hand or deck stay there.
Q: How does this interact with the Disco Dancers' mechanic and Funky Town's ability?
A: It doesn't interact with them at all, because it doesn't affect any minions in play and so its effect can't be copied.
Questions on Spreading Horror[]
Q: Spreading horror does not specify that the discard has to come from the players' own hands... Is this the case?
A: Yes. When a card tells you to discard a card, it comes from your hand unless it says otherwise.
Rule: Unless otherwise specified, discarding cards refers to cards in your hand.
Q: How does this interact with the Disco Dancers' mechanic and Funky Town's ability?
A: It doesn't interact with them at all, because it doesn't affect any minions in play and so its effect can't be copied.
Questions on The Price of Power[]
Q: Does boosting a minion before a base scores change anything at all? Don't we only get VPs based on the power we had at the start of scoring?
A: Actually, the amount of VPs each player gets is determined by the power each player currently has when you are handing out VPs, so any before-scoring abilities (including this one) that affect how much power you have on the base will affect the amount of VPs you'll eventually get.
Rule: VPs are awarded according to the current power totals.
Q: It gives power to "one of my minions". Can it give power to a minion I own that I don't control? I don't control it but I "own" it, so it's "my" minion, right?
A: No. "Your minions" are minions you control, whether or not you own them. A minion you own but don't control isn't yours.
Q: A base scores, another player uses The Price of Power to give a minion some power, then I move that minion with some special action (ex.: Some Day My Prince Will Come). Does this minion still have the bonus in the following turns or not?
A: The Bigger Geekier Box rulebook now clarifies that it expires at the end of the turn.
Q: Can I play it from stasis before a base scores?
A: No, while in stasis, the only abilities that can do anything are the ones that explicitly state that they do something there.
Rule: Abilities of cards in stasis do not work unless they refer to stasis.
Q: How does this interact with the Disco Dancers' mechanic and Funky Town's ability?
A: - If Diva copies it, Diva is considered as indirectly affected by the action and gets the same amount of power boost as the minion that was directly affected by the action.
- If Dancing King copies it onto a minion (it can be itself), that minion is considered as indirectly affected by the action and gets the same amount of power boost as the minion that was directly affected by the action. Note that while the action is limited to a minion controlled by the action player, the copy can be applied to any minion, even one not controlled by the action player. Even in that case, the amount of power is the same; you don't make the opponents of that minion's controller reveal their hand to decide it because that part has already been resolved before the power boost was copied and so the amount of power is already set.
- If We are Family copies it, the minion it is on is considered as indirectly affected by the action and gets the same amount of power boost as the minion that was directly affected by the action. Note that while the action is limited to a minion controlled by the action player, the copy can be applied to any minion, even one not controlled by the action player. Even in that case, the amount of power is the same; you don't make the opponents of that minion's controller reveal their hand to decide it because that part has already been resolved before the power boost was copied and so the amount of power is already set.
- With Funky Town, you can only copy it if you're the one who played the action, but if Funky Town does copy it, the minion is considered as indirectly affected by the action and gets the same amount of power boost as the minion that was directly affected by the action.
Questions on Touch of Madness[]
Q: Another player already has ten cards in their hand. I play Touch of Madness to make them draw a Madness card. What happens? I suppose they don't draw any because they already reached the limit of cards in hand, right? Or do they draw one and immediately discard it in their discard pile? Or do they draw it and choose which card to discard?
A: They draw the Madness card and don't discard any card until their next Draw 2 Cards phase (so not any Draw 2 Cards phase!). At that point, they will indeed need to draw two cards and discard down to 10 if they have more than 10. That's the only moment where they must discard down to 10. At any other time, they keep their hand of cards.
Q: After playing this card, I (somehow) have more than 10 cards in hand, do I immediately discard down to 10?
A: You don't discard any card until your next Draw 2 Cards phase (so not any Draw 2 Cards phase!). At that point, you will indeed need to draw two cards and discard down to 10 if you have more than 10. That's the only moment where you must discard down to 10. At any other time, you keep your hand of cards.
Q: How does this interact with the Disco Dancers' mechanic and Funky Town's ability?
A: It doesn't interact with them at all, because it doesn't affect any minions in play and so its effect can't be copied.
Questions on Unfathomable Goals[]
Q: An opponent plays Unfathomable Goals and I have a Madness card in my hand. Can I choose to destroy a minion in my hand instead of in play?
A: No. The card specifically tells you to destroy one of "your minions", which by definition refers to "minions in play that you control".
Q: An opponent plays Unfathomable Goals and I have a Madness card in my hand. Can I choose to destroy a minion that cannot be destroyed? Even if I have another minion that's not immune?
A: Sure.
Q: An opponent plays Unfathomable Goals and I have more than one Madness card in my hand. Do I still have to destroy one of my minions? The card says "a Madness card". If I have to, do I destroy one minion per Madness card?
A: You have to destroy one minion in total. The card meant to say "at least one Madness card".
Q: It tells me to destroy "one of my minions". Can I destroy a minion I own that I don't control? I don't control it but I "own" it, so it's "my" minion, right?
A: No. "Your minions" are minions you control, whether or not you own them. A minion you own but don't control isn't yours.
Q: I play Unfathomable Goals and an opponent chooses to destroy their minion on Field of Honor. Who gets the VP?
A: Your card made another player destroy the minion, so it's that player who did the destruction. Therefore, your opponent gets the VP because Field of Honor rewards the player who destroys it.[2]
Q: I play Unfathomable Goals and an opponent chooses to destroy their Awesome Guy, claiming that it can't be destroyed by my card and therefore survives. Is that correct?
A: No. There's a subtle nuance. When you play Unfathomable Goals to make another player destroy a minion, the minion is considered both "destroyed by your card's ability" and "destroyed by that player". So the cause of the destruction is your card's ability, but the person who carried out the destruction is that player. A card that can't be destroyed by "other players' abilities" is only immune to destruction if the cause is another player's ability. However, a card that can't be destroyed by "other players" is only immune to destruction if the person who does the destruction is another player. So Awesome Guy is not immune to destruction if it's destroyed by its own controller, even if the destruction was caused by another player's card.[2]
Q: I play Unfathomable Goals and other players are forced to destroy their own minion. Can I activate Mako's ability and play it?
A: No. Mako's ability can only be triggered after you destroy a minion. When you play Unfathomable Goals, you make other players destroy their minions, so they are the ones who destroyed them, not you. On the other hand, if your opponent played a similar card as Unfathomable Goals (e.g. Bear Hug) and made you destroy one of your minions, then you can activate Mako's ability.[2]
Q: I reveal a Madness card. Can I destroy one of my minions in stasis and have it fail since minions in stasis cannot be affected?
A: No, cards in stasis cannot even be chosen by cards that do not explicitly state they work on cards in stasis.
Q: How does this interact with the Disco Dancers' mechanic and Funky Town's ability?
A: - If Diva copies it, Diva is considered as indirectly affected by the action and is destroyed.
- If Dancing King copies it onto a minion (it can be itself), that minion is considered as indirectly affected by the action and is destroyed. Note that while the action is restricted to each other player who has revealed a Madness card, the copy effect can be applied onto any minion, even one not controlled by the same player, one controlled by an opponent who didn't have any Madness card in hand, or even the action player themself.
- If We are Family copies it, the minion it is on is considered as indirectly affected by the action and is destroyed. Note that while the action is restricted to each other player who has revealed a Madness card, the copy effect can be applied onto any minion, even one not controlled by the same player, one controlled by an opponent who didn't have any Madness card in hand, or even the action player themself.
- It is impossible for Funky Town to copy that action's effect because you can only directly affect an opponent's minion, which won't trigger Funky Town.
Trivia[]
- The artist is Alex Konstad.
- Their divider (available in The Big Geeky Box and The Bigger Geekier Box) features Byakhee.
- Elder Thing is the first minion to have a printed power of 10 and so far the only minion to have such power.
- Elder Thing is also the first boss minion to have both an on-play ability and an Ongoing ability (if you consider the errata'd version).
- With the standard 30 Madness cards, the maximum penalty you can inflict is -15 VPs, possibly making a 2 player game impossible to lose.
- The art for Touch of Madness refers to the play "The King in Yellow", and the symbol painted on the door in The Price of Power is the Yellow Sign.
- Shoggoths were created by the Elder Things as amphibious mindless laborers, who after many aeons overthrew and killed off their masters. Byakhee and Mi-go are not directly connected to the Elder Things, but all four are extraterrestrial in origin.
In other languages[]
| Language | Name |
|---|---|
| Chinese | 遠古之物 |
| French | Grands Anciens |
| German | Fremde Wesen |
| Italian | Gli Antichi |
| Russian | Старцы |
| Spanish | Antiguos |
| ||||||